East London line extension

THERE ARE NO ABSOLUTE PLANS TO TAKE THE ELL TO WIMBLEDON AS YET, THERE IS HOWEVER AN ONGOING PLAN TO TAKE IT TO CLAPHAM JUNCTION VIA DENMARK HILL, CLAPHAM HIGH STREET AND WANDSWORTH ROAD.
AS YOU ARE PROBABLY AWARE THERE IS ONGOING COURT DEALING FOR THE NORTHERN SECTION OF THE LINE BUT THE SOUTHERN SECTION SHOULD GO THROUGH.
PS: I WORK ON THE TUBE SO I GET BETTER AND UPDATED INFORMATION!

I AM LOOKING FORWORD,TO GO THE EAST LONDON LINE TO WIMBLEDON.
MAYBE WE WILL HAVE A WINNER BY THE TIME THIS IS COMPLETED.

Have I missed something? I thought that this line was coming to Streatham via Tulse Hill. Now Streatham seems to be by-passed and I'm sure the good folk of this area will be mightily displeased. Just as well I moved to Brixton, really! Anyone know why the route has/seems to continue to alter?

ONE OF THE SOUTHERN TERMINI IS SUPPOSED TO BE WEST CROYDON, THIS IS NOT MUCH GOOD FOR INTERCHANGE WITH MAINLINE SERVICES AT EAST CROYDON! AS I UNDERSTAND THINGS ONE OF THE PROBLEMS IS CAPACITY FOR TERMINATING TRAINS AT EAST CROYDON, I SUGGEST THE PLANNERS LOOK INTO EXTENDING THE PROPOSED SERVICE SOUTH OF CROYDON TO EITHER CATERHAM OR SMITHAM TO FREE UP PLATFORM SPACE AT EAST CROYDON.

Are there any DEFINITES on the East London lin e extension ? I want to buy a flat in South East london, and would love to live near a tube station, even if itwon't be there till 2008! Thanks for any help.

Hi all
The map I have on this site comes from thetube.com so it is the latest public information that I am aware of. I'll hunt around a bit more and have a look in hansard to see if there is any updates.
There is a newer map on the TFL tube website.
If you are buying a flat, then Forest Hill, off south circular is pretty good, 15 mintes to London Bridge.

It looks as though the Government has given the official go-ahead for the East London Line extension. And no, it won't be going to Wimbledon.

http://www.london.gov.uk/view_press_release.jsp?releaseid=1860

Interesting stuff - esp. for those of us in Denmark Hill/Camberwell who have never quite forgiven the failure to extend the Bakerloo to Camberwell [permission for this having been granted in the 1930s - Camberwell is on one of the maps by Beck from this era!].

But does the current proposal imply changes to our existing rail services? It seems too coincidental that all the south of the river stations bar one or two will be existing railway stations. Does this mean no more direct Victoria - London Bridge trains via Peckham, DK Hill and Clapham, for example? And what of the Sydenham - London Bridge line? I note the line goes to Clapham high Street. Logically, if it were to be integrated with the Tube as it currently exists, it should link with Clapham North. Are we robbing Peter to pay Paul?

However bad the existing services can be, it would be not much of a gain if we got a tube service that doesn't especially go anywhere in Central London AND lost our connections to an important - and now well connected - railway terminus.

Any insider info anyone can share?

Thanks.

John

well, it seems the track has changed from the last posting

http://tube.tfl.gov.uk/content/faq/lines/EastLondon.asp?expandAlso=menu32

Francesca

Some interesting comments and developments on this.

I'm not too fussed about the Wimbledon link as it's already connected through the District Line. Croydon and Hackney on the other hand richly deserve a Tube connection, ditto Clapham Junction. British Rail (or whatever they're called these days) has some of its busiest London links going through these areas so it would definitely go some way towards decongestion.

(In theory anyway....)

Btw, i wonder why the northern extension (as it stands) doesn't reach Hackney Central. It's by far the busiest station on the Silverlink.

Indeed it would make more sense. I guess the problem is space given that this is the line of the Channel Tunnel Rail Link. If they were to branch off to the right they would have to go all the way to Stratford, let's see what the Olympic planners think.

According to the latest issue of the 'Londoner' the ELLE is terminating at Finsbury Park but the SRA have now confirmed that it is terminating at Highbury & Islington because of 'operational reasons'. This is a short sighted move as an extension to Finsbury Park could have provided a station at Drayton Park where the new Arsenal Stadium will be (60,000 people using the tiny Holloway Road station). There would also be the real opportunity to extend the ELLE to terminate at East Finchley (or Mill Hill East) with a 2 mile tunnel under the Parkland Walk with stations at Stroud Green (interchange with Gospel Oak to Barking Line), Crouch End and Highgate.

I have been following this topic for years, having lived in Honor Oak Park for so long I have yearned for The Tube!

A friend of mine that works for Connex says that the inside news is that TFL are encouraging a private deal which effectively results in TFL buying the Connex South Central Line (London Bridge to Croydon and beyond) and basically getting rid of roll-stock Connex trains and replacing with Tube trains running on the existing overland track, updating the existing stations and then allowing Connex to run a few services on their track/stations using a fast service from London Bridge to East Croydon - and then from there continuing the normal rail services onto Caterham etc... this sounds great for people like myself - ie: trains every few mins from Honor Oak Park, but for the people using the line to get from London Bridge home to say, Caterham surely this service is going to be every 20 mins or so... ?

The only real problem is getting to London Bridge from the Connex South Stations... there will be no direct route, instead having to go to Canada Water and jumping on the Jubilee Line for the remainder of the journey...

i have been a resident in streatham hill for the last seven years and was very happy to hear that there was talk of a tube connection to streatham,which i hear has been withdrawn in favour of connection to clapham junction,surely it would be more of interest to connect a satelite district such as streatham,which has poor transport connections to central london enabling people who work in the capital to have an easy time with their journeys,and also bring new business to the area.clapham has three tubes,and has sufficent trains overground and is the same size as streatham,why is that being overlooked.it would be easy to connect the bakerloo line from elephant down to here,for example..they say the ground in the south is of clay consistency,yet it didnt stop the northern,victoria and recently the jubilee line.people in south london always have the raw deal,having to rely on british rail...ken livingstone,take note....

I think the real reason why Streatham and the extension to Finsbury Park has been shelved is that they can bring the ELLE from Clapham Junction on the little used West London Line to Willesden Junction and then on the line that goes to Kilburn, South Hampstead and Primrose Hill before joining up with the North London Line at Camden Road. In effect an orbital rail line for virtually no money as it uses existing lines or old track bed.

What we do need in London is a feasibility into extending the existing lines south and north (in fact this was done before the war!!). It would be a very economical way of producing greater access to the Underground system in areas like Crouch End/Muswell Hill that are dependent on a hopeless bus system. However Ken L realises that his only answer are buses, as these can be bought off the shelf whereas new tube lines require enormous expenditure.

I am wondering what all the fuss surrounding the East London Line extension is all about for inhabitants of Streatham and thereabouts. Why is it so disappointing that this line is not coming to the area? Is it just that Streatham is long over-due for a tube station and that a link to any old line will do? What use would it be to be linked to the ELL anyway? I live between Brixton Hill and Streatham Hill and am inundated with buses to the City and West End, (where I imagine the majority of the travelling public would be heading for their work). What use then to be diverted east to an overcrowded London Bridge for and onward journey? I would much rather see an extension to the Victoria Line, with a new station at Brixton Hill, via Streatham, Norbury, Thornton Heath and West Croydon, terminating at East Croydon.

As for all of that mullarkey about soil differences and the difficulties of tunneling in south London - outdated rot! The technology has long existed to be able to overcome these difficulties. It's all a question of time and cost. Buses are an easy, relatively cheap and quick solution, but consider this; a little thought goes a long way. A lot of thought goes absolutely no-where! Perhaps a little less in the way of spending money on flashy presentations and proposed routes may be better spent on digging those tunnels and linking these areas of London to a useful tube line!

Further to David's comments, can't comment on Streatham but my view on why people want a tube rather than buses is that buses are slow, unpleasant etc. I agree that a planned look at extending existing tube lines is long overdue, the Victoria Line especially. Ken Livingstone can buy buses off the peg, hence the obsession with promoting buses over the underground.

READ TODAY THAT THE ELL WILL NOT STOP AT BRIXTON AS COSTS OUTWEIGH BENEFIT. THERE IS A CAMPAIGN GOING ON AT THE MOMENT TO LOOK AT THE POSSIBILITY OF A STOP AT LOUGHBOROUGH JUNCTION. WHAT IS THE POINT OF PUTTING A TUBE THROUGH AN AREA WITHOUT STOPPING?

The ELL extension cannot come soon enough, so long as communications between the various companies controlling it remain constructive. (Replacing one erratic and unreliable service with another will be disastrous.) Aside from the huge benefits to ALL SE London commuters, it will relieve the huge pressures on the rest of the underground network now suffering as the 'cattle trucks' arrive at London Bridge.

The ELL extension cannot come soon enough, so long as communications between the various companies controlling it remain constructive. (Replacing one erratic and unreliable service with another will be disastrous.) Aside from the huge benefits to ALL SE London commuters, it will relieve the huge pressures on the rest of the underground network now suffering as the 'cattle trucks' arrive at London Bridge.

I think you ought to be aware that the completion date for the East London Line Extension has now moved back to 2010. This information from a transport liaison group run by Lewisham council. Be prepared for more delays as the work progresses!

It's pathetic how they can't even lay a few lines and build a couple of stations without it having to take 10-15 years. It's not as if they have to do any drilling of holes or anything.

Regarding the comments about the ELL not really going anywhere useful.
Many people working in the north eastern part of the city of london who currently use Liverpool Street or Old Street as their final destination station could walk to work from Shoreditch High Street, surely?
If Ken livingstone wants to reduce overcrowding on the tube he should put more maps up informing people of walking distances around central areas.
The amount of people who crowd on tubes at London Bridge only to get off at bank and walk halfway back to the river again is stupid.
Then again, ticket revenues are quite important I suppose.

I am considering buying in Streatham so was wondering the latest on the East London extension to the tube - is this going ahead, will it go via Streatham? I have searched on the web but all i get is info up to April last year? Has something happened since?
Any info anyone has would be great.
Thanks,
Charlotte.

The East London Line is being handed over to Network Rail and will run standard trains. It will not be part of the underground network.
I live in Camberwell where the frequency of trains running through Denmark Hill will be 4 an hour - exactly the same frequency that they currently run to Victoria, only going to Clapham Junction instead. I can't see how this is any advantage to the people living here, quite the opposite.
I suspect that the thinking behind the project, is to encourage wealthy commuters from Surrey / West London suburbs, to bypass the overcrowded tube network on their way to the City.
South Londoners want to see the Victoria and Bakerloo lines extended, but these lines are already overcowded and TFL have made clear their desire to take people off these lines and get them using buses. Unfortunately, the best chance South London has of getting connected to the tube, is an entirely new line providing extra capacity. I'm not holding my breath.

Does anyone have any updates as to where they have got along the track with the extension so far, or know any timescales as to when sections shall be completed.

it is just i am moving to Honour Oak Park soon.

Last week, at a meeting of the Sydenham and Forest Hill Forum, Len Duvall, GLA representative for south east London, presented some depressing news on the future of the East London line extension. Basically this project has been handed over to the Strategic Rail Authority. The Treasury are suspicious of the SRA's ability to keep costs under control so they are unwilling to come up with the money for the ELLX. The project is currently on hold with no date for commencing work until this is sorted out. Don't hold your breath!

The new funding arrangements announced today (25 feb) should allow Ken Livingstone to take responsibility for ELLX from the strategic rail authority. Basically the government have given him the right to borrow 400 million to spend on London's infrastructure, and he'll probably spend part of it on the ELLX, though the exact spending decisions are yet to be made. Ken is very likely to favour ELLX because it helps with the olympic bid and with east london's ongoing regeneration, both of which he feels strongly about.

I'm hoping that considering the Olympic bid and Mayor Ken's ideas for reviving e.london this is going to be a priority. What do you reckon of chances by end of the decade?

personally, I don't think it will ever get built because it's not likely to be profitable.

Passing the project from central government to the London mayor is just a piece of unsubtle buck-passing by the government. Don't blame us, blame Ken! The Labour government came to power telling us that they were going to sort out public transport. Even the Tories, who don't believe in public transport, gave us a whole number of transport projects which improved life in south London - Thameslink, a high-speed cross Channel link and an extension to the Jubilee Line. Come on Labour - put you money where your mouth is!

Exactly what is the point of the East London Line!? Yes it'll provide transport to many underservices areas of London but it fails to connect to anywhere useful. It needs an interchange with the centre of the tube network.
Isn't it all just a hype?

In response to Pablo's comments, it is a fantastic idea to remove a load of people from london Bridge in the morning, thus freeing up that bottl;eneck, with all the users of the ELL who want to connect with City/West End/Canary Wharf changing at Canada Water onto the Jubilee line, there's your interchange!

I think its inevitable that it will only get built if we get the Olympics, which is unlikely.

It is time south London had a good tube line. An extension of the Victoria Line from Brixton is the obvious answer to the viability of a serviceable link into London. Ken Livingstone needs to get a review set up as quickly as possible for an extension of the Victoria Line to Streatham and beyond. South London needs access in to Central London. It will take enormous pressure off the Northern Line which is already over crowded, over used, poorly maintained, and frequently out of service. We can't depend on buses alone.

It isn't a new tube line, it will run over network rail tracks. Therefore who ever runs over them will have a maximum capacity, not a lot different to now. What is the point of say Streatham having underground trains with no more capacity than improved existing services. Why not let the rail service run it all, including the current ELL. With no extra capital cost on installing a 4th rail plus new signalling compatible with the underground, trains can continue on to Willesden taking in the loop onto Clapham Junction. Also there is a further through route across London.

The ELL extension will never get built. The line isn't expected to make a profit, and as a result the government won't be able to raise the required

Presumably you are referring to the southern extension, the north has begun hasn't it? As long as the through route is established, that would be progress

www.ellp.co.uk is the official website of the East London Line which I am handing over to the Strategic Rail Authority & hense privatising the
first tube line.

CAll me FREE on 0800 587 2441 (Office)
for the latest information on the EAst London Line Project.

Crossrail is going to take priority over the ELLP. As usual the needs of wealthy commuters from outside London are taking priority over those of Londoners themselves.
I live a few miles from central London, yet have friends out in Surrey who can get into town quicker than I can.
TFL and Ken are meant to be representing our interests.

Malcolm wrote: "I SUGGEST THE PLANNERS LOOK INTO EXTENDING THE PROPOSED SERVICE SOUTH OF CROYDON TO EITHER CATERHAM OR SMITHAM TO FREE UP PLATFORM SPACE AT EAST CROYDON."

Good idea. The Victoria Line could run in tube tunnel via Purley, Sanderstead, Riddlesdown and Kenley before surfacing just north of Whyteleafe station. It could then run on the existing Southern tracks to Caterham. Signalling would have to be upgraded, and a couple of level crossings removed on the open section. A new siding and depot would have to be built, perhaps at Whyteleafe beyond the tunnel entrances to accomodate the extra trains needed for this extension.

Malcolm wrote: "I SUGGEST THE PLANNERS LOOK INTO EXTENDING THE PROPOSED SERVICE SOUTH OF CROYDON TO EITHER CATERHAM OR SMITHAM TO FREE UP PLATFORM SPACE AT EAST CROYDON."

Good idea. The Victoria Line could run in tube tunnel via Purley, Sanderstead, Riddlesdown and Kenley before surfacing just north of Whyteleafe station. It could then run on the existing Southern tracks to Caterham. Signalling would have to be upgraded, and a couple of level crossings removed on the open section. A new siding and depot would have to be built, perhaps at Whyteleafe beyond the tunnel entrances to accomodate the extra trains needed for this extension.

Live in Streatham Hub area + most days are like "tube strike" days on Southern Railways. I would nominate the service to/from Streatham Common/Victoria as the "worst in UK" with the government and TFL both ignoring the problem. Not interested in the ELL - the original plans for Streatham had no quick access to a tube + also not interested in a tram line to Purley for the same reasons. People are tired of being told to get buses to Brixton along the horror A23 - they take 30 minutes from the ice rink! We need easy access to a tube connection in Streatham urgently - best would be a connection from Streatham to Kennington pleasing both city and central London commuters.

We're being asked to pay higher travel card costs from 2005 for tube services we have no access to - I can't believe that air-conditioning on tubes is a priority when so many people in south london cannot get to/from work each day from zone 3.

Live in Streatham Hub area + most days are like "tube strike" days on Southern Railways. I would nominate the service to/from Streatham Common/Victoria as the "worst in UK" with the government and TFL both ignoring the problem. Not interested in the ELL - the original plans for Streatham had no quick access to a tube + also not interested in a tram line to Purley for the same reasons. People are tired of being told to get buses to Brixton along the horror A23 - they take 30 minutes from the ice rink! We need easy access to a tube connection in Streatham urgently - best would be a connection from Streatham to Kennington pleasing both city and central London commuters.

We're being asked to pay higher travel card costs from 2005 for tube services we have no access to - I can't believe that air-conditioning on tubes is a priority when so many people in south london cannot get to/from work each day from zone 3.

As a 2+ year resident of north Peckham, i too was eager to hear real progress of the east london line's extension. Although it generally makes sense in planning frequent connections along any line, the phase-one southen extension doesn't actually bring a new service to any areas it serves; merely a connection option. It's interesting to note that the trendy and high-priced areas like Hoxton are getting flashy new stations too. Phase two, which I'm barely near, connects already serviced areas once again; only another 10? years later? Getting it in for the Olympics: The London Olympic bid: From 2006/2007, a band-D (most of the areas not getting any new service) council tax payer will pay 20 pounds more, anually, throughout the runup, duration, and post? the olympics. (do you really think it will be eliminated once/if the olympics are under way and corporate sponsorship kicks in?) What if the bid is unsuccessful? what do we, the folks who still have no new tube/rail stations within reach do? (Notice the target, originally set at 2005, seems to be suspiciously close to the 2012 target date now.) I fail to see the humour in these unknowns. Elite athletes paid partially with my un-supporting council tax, more privileged areas with new tubes, a proposal that's been batted around for years... Forget the lousy phase-two ethereal dream; I'll keep my 20 pounds a year and ride the bus. I give in. It all stinks of dated-rail offloads and squandering of the glamour awarded by the original idea on other mandates now. :-( two thumbs down.

As a 2+ year resident of north Peckham, i too was eager to hear real progress of the east london line's extension. Although it generally makes sense in planning frequent connections along any line, the phase-one southen extension doesn't actually bring a new service to any areas it serves; merely a connection option. It's interesting to note that the trendy and high-priced areas like Hoxton are getting flashy new stations too. Phase two, which I'm barely near, connects already serviced areas once again; only another 10? years later? Getting it in for the Olympics: The London Olympic bid: From 2006/2007, a band-D (most of the areas not getting any new service) council tax payer will pay 20 pounds more, anually, throughout the runup, duration, and post? the olympics. (do you really think it will be eliminated once/if the olympics are under way and corporate sponsorship kicks in?) What if the bid is unsuccessful? what do we, the folks who still have no new tube/rail stations within reach do? (Notice the target, originally set at 2005, seems to be suspiciously close to the 2012 target date now.) I fail to see the humour in these unknowns. Elite athletes paid partially with my un-supporting council tax, more privileged areas with new tubes, a proposal that's been batted around for years... Forget the lousy phase-two ethereal dream; I'll keep my 20 pounds a year and ride the bus. I give in. It all stinks of dated-rail offloads and squandering of the glamour awarded by the original idea on other mandates now. :-( two thumbs down.

Hi

Any improvement for Hackney and the East of London is okay with me. And as for the "posh" new stations. Good for them. The old ones in the days when Dalston Junction ran trains to Broad Street left more than something to be desired. Strange how people think of this as a new line. Take a look at the maps of 1889 and you'll see most of the infrastructure existed. All it would have taken was a new bridge over Bishopsgate.

Phase Two of the East London Line is a bit like 'Crossrail 2' - some decade over the rainbow. It is impolite to cancal rail extensions, so instead authorities relabel them. Crossrail 2 was the old Chelsea-Hackney line, but as Crossrail 1 is unlikely to be built than Crossrail Two is dead in the water.

If Livingstone can't get the cash for Phase Two of ELL - a relatively minor rail project in terms of work - then how on earth is he going to build Crossrail or sort out the Tube for the Olympics? Is is likely that if London got the games, the financial hangover (

I work on the present line, the dates for closure are summer 2006 for Shoreditch ( to enble construction of the ramp and bridge to the Broad St line ) and summer 2009 (was summer 2008) for the rest of the line. Rumour control says it will be delayed further.